Nookipedia talk:Project Villager

Gallery
Hi there, not sure if this is still ongoing? But seemed like the perfect place for my question. I've been adding some sprites to galleries and I noticed that they're not all the same.

Sometimes, there's just a section "6 Gallery", eg. Bill - this contains a link to a gallery page (Bill/Gallery and below is gallery with artwork from games. Other times, there's section "6 Gallery" and subsection "6.1 Artwork", eg. Drake. Under Gallery is the link to the gallery page and under artwork is the artwork, right. And then there are also pages, that follow the "Ideal Table of Contents" as writen here, eg. Freckles.

My question is -why do some characters have Gallery pages and some do not? I thought it was that the oldest characters have Gallery pages (because they're probably having larger galleries), but that doesn't seem to be the case. (eg. Spike, though he was absent from WW/CF. Static has appeared in all games, and does not have a gallery page and has quite the number of pictures on the page.) Personally I think it would be better if all character had gallery pages. Sure, sometimes, especially the new ones, have just 3 pictures in gallery so having a gallery page is probably unnecessary, but it'd look better, I think. I like the first example the most, I don't see the need for the "Artwork" subsection. (If the villager has a gallery page)

I was also wondering if it wouldn't look nicer if the "Sprites and Models" subsection was arranged the way that icons are next to each other and villager pics are next to each other and models are next to each other and so on. Now it's arranged by games, so Wild World icon is followed by WW picture, followed by album sprite, followed by more icons, eg. Lucy/Gallery. I think the other sections should be arranged by date, this one would just look better if it was arranged by a type... though that would ruin the consistency through subsections which might be weird?

I didn't want to ruin any standards that I'm missing being a baby editor on here so I'm asking which it is! Thank you. ♥ Paviinka (talk) 02:57, March 20, 2020 (EDT)
 * Well, you stated there that some galleries are too small to have their own pages. Don't want really unnecessary page visiting. Also, it does seem like a nice idea to organize by type of image, with all head icons in one spot and pics in another, there are some stragglers such as album art, mugshots, and full body sprites that don't neatly fit. I suppose you can fit those into an extra subsection that deals with miscellaneous kinds of sprites, kind of like what we already do with the artwork section. Beyond Lucy's gallery, which I checked, would that set up work for enough amount of villagers?
 * And really, don't worry about "ruining" standards here. Please don't be afraid of bringing up any questions around here. Don't even be scared of attempting any edits since anything you might "mess up" on will be just reverted, and that's at worst. Thanks for dropping a comment here, and I hope you'll feel more confident the more you edit here! 03:16, March 20, 2020 (EDT)
 * Paviinka is a great addition to our roster of Wiki editing fans that want to improve villager pages ! That's a wonderful idea. In fact I did not even know Gallery subpages existed until SuperHamster told me so yesterday. We've had a good discussion about it and I do agree Gallery subpages do need some love. I really like the way you rearranged Wolfgang's gallery subpage, Paviinka. The only thing I would do is "Cards" should be it's own subsection of Artwork (most every villager have cards now), while Scenes should be thrown into "Miscellaneous" since there is not a whole lot of them that have scenes per say. Also, since we segregate 3D models from icons, and pictures, the section called Sprites and Models could be renamed Assets? That's my two cents !--Ocre (talk) 19:14, March 21, 2020 (EDT)
 * So, Ocre and I brainstormed and came up with this outline:

> Artwork >> Renders - official renders - promo pictures - sorted by release game >> Cards - E-cards - Amiibo - Welcome amiibo - NA - EU - JP - (Not sure about naming - "North American" vs "NA"?) - Do not specify the villager - Add link to E-Card and amiibo page >> Miscellaneous - wallpapers etc. > Assets >> Icons >> Pictures - Villager pics framed, followed by unframed (if available), albums (sorted by release game) >> Models > Screenshots - non house screenshots >> Housing - interior and exterior >> Animation - screenshots from the movie > Merchandise - If one section contains multiple picture from 1 game, link only the first one - everything is sorted by game release except Assets → Pictures (Portraits come first)


 * And Ocre edited O'Hare's gallery as an example. ♥
 * Use code in the Gallery section on the Villager's page to bring over the Renders section from gallery!
 * Paviinka (talk) 20:45, March 21, 2020 (EDT)
 * Thanks for the outline, Paviinka! That's indeed what I've been using since yesterday. --Ocre (talk) 17:25, March 23, 2020 (EDT)
 * Looks good! I'm thinking though, I'm not sure how well Cards fits under Artwork - it seems a bit repetitive since the artwork on the cards is identical to the renders. I think it might fit better under the Merchandise section (at the bottom?), which can have three sections, when applicable: Cards, Plushes, and Other (see Rosie/Gallery for an example of how much merchandise some villagers have). ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 00:24, March 24, 2020 (EDT)


 * Thanks so much for bringing this up, ! You and have both done a great job working this out. We're definitely in need of a standard format for our villager gallery (as you have noted in your examples), and the solution that you and Ocre have come to I think works quite nicely. The proof of concept on O'Hare's page looks great/I can't think of any improvements. I would encourage you to add this outline to the project page as a guideline for future editors. I have stepped down as project leader, so you are free to continue to develop villager page standards via consensus with other editors (or apply for the position). This was a position I held for some time, but given the interest in this project by other editors and my current obligations, it's not really feasible for me to continue leading it. Sunmarshsignature.png  ( talk )  00:25, March 24, 2020 (EDT)
 * As asked, I updated the Project's page proper with the new Gallery structure and updated the villager page structure instructions as well.--Ocre (talk) 13:13, March 24, 2020 (EDT)

Transcluding Gallery subpages content to villager pages
Hi ! We've had a good discussion with SuperHamster and Paviinka on the Discord regarding Gallery subpages and the lack of cohenrence between them, the villagers pages, and what gallery content should be shown on villager pages. A few points were raised :
 * It does not seem like there are any policy laid as to what images should be shown in the gallery section of villager pages : some show Artwork only, some show Artwork + Sprites + Miscellaneous, and some show even screenshots.
 * There is a problem regarding adding new villager pictures to Nookipedia. If you want to add them in the Villager/Gallery subpage, then you have double the work since you have to add them also on the villager's page proper.

So we have come up with an embryo of a policy.
 * 1) We've come up with the suggestion that only Artwork images should be shown on the villager pages
 * 2) SuperHamster said it was possible to have a transclude script that would fetch images in the Villager/Gallery subpage and show them on the villager's page, but only those of the section Artwork. That way we wouldn't have to work twice over - we would only work on the Villager/Gallery subpage when adding in new images.
 * 3) Since most of the images will now be stashed away in the Villager/Gallery subpages, the link to these subpages on villager pages should be made more proheminent - SuperHamster suggested a button or a something a bit more user-friendly?

I will not discuss the problem regarding the content of Villager/Gallery subpages that Paviinka has raised yesterday. It's a distinct problem, and I shall discuss it in the discussion she started above. --Ocre (talk) 18:57, March 21, 2020 (EDT)
 * Galleries as separate pages should be comprehensive as they need to be. If there is artwork only in a gallery, I'm guessing it's just a simple content gap or there's not enough images for a separate page anyway. Gallery pages, provided they are substantial, should be organized by artwork/sprites+models/screenshots/misc. Screenshots should be if the villager is a main focus (being talked to, inside their house), not if they're in the background.
 * Again, galleries should not be created if there is not enough artwork needed for a gallery (Phil wouldn't need a gallery, for instance, at least at revision I'm seeing). A point of a separate gallery page is to prevent the size of galleries overwhelming the main page (see Player/Gallery as an extreme example). Sometimes, it's at the editors' discretions; Cube can probably use a separate gallery page, but it's also not quite big enough to need a separate page. If we need to create a page for galleries, then the empty section that links to the gallery should have a small gallery of 3-5 images, preferably artwork.
 * Adding art in both the gallery and the main page is not a big problem. The only thing I can see it being a problem is if the gallery page is unnecessary. 19:09, March 21, 2020 (EDT)


 * While I understand your point, I believe that the intention is to create a long-term, standardized solution to Villager gallery pages, whereby every villager gets a separate gallery page regardless of length. I think there is an underlying assumption that in the future, once every villager's page has been improved, all villagers will require a gallery page. I'm generally in support of this, because as we shift our focus to a more mobile-centered approach, decreasing the length of a page will make it easier to navigate (less scrolling). Having less images on the page will also help it load faster (although this is probably negligible?). Perhaps we can adjust display on desktop vs mobile to allow for the transclusion of more images on displays with larger screen real estate. Sunmarshsignature.png  ( talk )  00:45, March 24, 2020 (EDT)
 * Agreed. Mario's raises excellent points, but ultimately I think having all villager galleries in central, predictable spots is worth it, to make them easy to maintain moving forward. The other nice thing about the transclusion is, let's say today we're only including artwork on villager article galleries, and tomorrow we decide we want to include sprites too...we can do a mass-replace of the Gallery template and be done with it. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 01:43, March 25, 2020 (EDT)

Standardization of minor things and other stuff...
Hi. I've been making some small edits in between obtaining house images and, well, I noticed that a lot of things are done differently and I probably messed stuff. When I wanted to refer to PV, there was nothing about it.

Infobox Villager
Clothes parameter. It is suggested to use the "tt" hint template. Apparently, that does not work for mobile. I've seen a few solutions used:
 * Wave Print Striped Shirt (Blue) ( onwards)
 * Wave Print Striped Shirt (Blue) ( onwards)
 * Wave Print Striped Shirt (Blue) ( onwards)
 * Wave Print Striped Shirt (Blue) ( onwards)
 * Wave print Striped Shirt (Blue)  onwards
 * Wave print Striped Shirt (Blue)  onwards

Personally I am fan of using bracket and having the game on a new line - that saves space (which is beneficial for mobile view) and the brackets make it more obvious that it's a note and not just random game's name... Next, if the clothing was called something else in different games, the "Note" template should be used. Phrases. Some Japanese/Korean/Russian phrases have romanization noted next to the phrase. I've noticed that sometimes, if romanization is available for the japanese phrase, it is put into the "Note" template. But usually only the japanese one, even if the russian/korean have romanization as well. I think all pages should either:
 * Have romanization next to the phrase in brackets
 * Have romanization in the "Note" template

If the "Note" template will be used - how's it going to be formatted? The easiest is "Romanization: Pū xiū". I've seen someone was doing " Romanization: Pū xiū" and I thought that it looked cute so I started doing that too. Not the brightest idea but the pages are going to be updated a few more times anyway and it's not that hard to fix. I'm not sure that the romanization has to be in the "Note" template, that just makes too many notes. I feel like it's fine just noted with brackets... I don't have a strong opinion on that I think. I'd be fine with whatever. The Japanese-exclusive villagers (eg. Tarou) have their latest quote in Japanese - the translation should be done using the "Note" template and if the Romanization will be writen using the Note template, it should be formatted in the same way.

Housing section
Section titles. This has been discussed on the Discord Server. Some Villagers have the same house in DnM, ACGC and DnMe+. I still haven't gotten to checking DnMe+, but there's still the assumption that DnMe+ house will be the DnM house? Anyway, I feel like it could be noted on how to name the subsections somewhere.
 * DnM, ACGC, DnMe+ houses are different
 * In
 * In
 * In
 * DnM=DnMe+, ACGC is different
 * In
 * In
 * Note that DnM=DnMe+
 * DnM=DnMe+=ACGC
 * In
 * Note that all houses are the same
 * DnM=ACGC, DnMe+ is different
 * In
 * In
 * Note that DnM=PG

That is my proposal on how to deal with the section titles. Differences in int. Some houses in DnM differ from the ACGC ones by just one to a few furniture items. If I remember correctly, Rosie has arrow sign in the Japanese version, but doesn't in the English one. Not that big change, but making a note of any sorts would break the template (not show the furniture items), and I've read somewhere that the special villagers appearances should have a new section even if just the t-shirt is different, so that should work for houses, too. Int images list - At my Nookipedia Google Sheet, the "DnM" tab - "PG" next to a villager's namee means that DnM int = ACGC int, "DnM" means that it's different. Included are the links to the images. "Retake" means that I find the ACGC screenshot too dark and will try to take a better one. I'm halfway there, so if someone wants to check what has been done, perhaps. Anyway, I'll start adding them to the articles whenever we settle down on the section naming, so it's named properly already. Furniture. Should be sorted out in a way to save space. Do not include duplicate (New Horizons has a lot of rooms with tons of dupe garlands :/) Music. I'm using the "Note" template to note the game (ACGC/ DnMe+) + sometimes I add "Does not include stereo initially," but apparently villagers in DnM couldn't change the layout of their houses and I'm unsure about the older games? So I don't know how to deal with that. I'm also unsure if the earlier music noted is correct as I know some pages described the PG houses incorrectly. I don't wanna deal with music though so :// Anyway, the point of this paragraph is - should we note the stereo thing?

Other stuff
Other appearances - HHD - List of HHD character with missing HHD template (includes Special characters as well) - is the info in the template dependant on the amiibo cards or can it just be the ordinary build request? I suppose the quickest would be to check the game, but I figured I could ask. Names in other languages - I've come across one villager page that used the "tt" hint template in this table. I feel like there's no need for that, as the point of the table is to explain how the name came to be, so it should list everything at first glance. Anyway, if we're not using "tt", we'd have to use the "Note" template, and that'd just look bad. Galleries. So, when making the outline with Ocre, we noted to only link the first game appearance in section. If NL villager pic is next to NH villager pic that is followed by NL album, obviously only the pic has to be linked. I've noticed that some people only link the first appearance of the game (so NL is only linked in the renders). I looked around for a linking policy or style manual and I couldn't find it. I feel like, in the galleries, every subsection should have the first game appearance linked. I could compromise and make it every section (aka, "Main" would only have "Renders" with links, but "Screenshots" would continue having links). I wouldn't want to scroll way up to find a game link, but that's probably just me. We should make this coherent though, eventually.

Comments
I'm aware that I've written this comment in quite commanding way, it's hot and my non existent English knowledge is escaping me, haha, so, please try not to take it in that way. It is a discussion and I'm not trying to dictate anything or set something in stone without consulting. This should be everything for now, haha. Paviinka (talk) 10:24, April 22, 2020 (EDT)
 * I just want to note here that I've changed my mind and I'd go for "Wave Print Striped Shirt (Blue) ( onwards) " version haha.
 * Also, more on galleries - islanders' sprites are linked with Animal Island; I'd link the DnMe+ sprites with DnMe+ and under it with GBA minigames, as the sprites are in gameboy and not in the "raw" DnMe+ experience haha.
 * Also I was thinking if we really need to have the long for of game names in the galleries; esp when there are more than one screenshots next to each other, I think after one "Animal Crossing: Something" the "Something" is enough...? P aviinka Papa Bear WW.png (Message me!)  12:59, May 1, 2020 (EDT)


 * I agree that using tt is not ideal. I think having them on separate lines is best, maybe we can adjust the line-height and text color so it's a bit clearer. A quick mock-up:
 * Wave Print  Striped Shirt (Blue)


 * I would vote for the phrase romanization after the native script in parentheses:
 * Flag of Japan.png ネコ


 * Only the most recent English saying should stay in the Infobox, IMO, and the other languages could be translated like this:
 * Flag of Japan.png 豚に真珠


 * I agree with the section titles. Basically, there should be a new section for each game that has a different interior, even if the exterior is unchanged. Also it's possible for some DnM+ homes to be different from DnM & PG (there are different items between the two games, and some items have different textures), so it might also get its own section. I know I mentioned adding an 'identical' parameter, but maybe it's just more helpful to add a 'notes' parameter, and then any sort of notes can be included there?


 * Furniture, agree that duplicates don't need to be included. Also, if it's possible, it would be nice to list the items with the shortest names exclusively using either the even or odd furniture parameters (e.g. f1, f3, f5...) This way the furniture names take up the least amount of space and don't extend the template. This isn't really a big deal though, as I think SuperHamster and I were planning on revamping the template to display horizontally on desktop so we won't have to worry about that issue.


 * As for music, I don't know whether or not animals can change their home layout in older games (GameCube and prior). I feel like it's something I should know, but I don't remember. I don't think that they can, but we would need to check. For noting these, I would avoid the note template and do something like this, since they will all be on the same line:
 * K.K. Tango, Only You  , K.K. Island
 * Using the shortest abbreviation for all games, unless you need to note 'and prior' or 'onward' in which case you'd use the short version.


 * For missing HHD info, are you asking if the request is different depending on whether you call them via amiibo card versus a random encounter? That I honestly don't know... although I don't think it's different. *sweatdrop*


 * The Names in Other Languages template needs to be revamped. For now I would list the romanization below the original script:


 * I agree that the gallery links would be better formatted using 'short' (e.g. ). Having the 'Animal Crossing' before everything makes it difficult to see what images are from where. I also agree that there should be one link per main section (e.g.  )


 * I don't think I understand your comment about the links below islander sprites. Could you show an example of what you would do vs. what is currently being done? Sunmarshsignature.png  ( talk )  14:55, May 1, 2020 (EDT)


 * As far as romanization of Japanese, Chinese, Korean, and Russian phrases, when I was updating the infoboxes in January-February, I have deleted a lot of those. My angle is : make it simple. It's in an infobox, which is already overloaded with information. Romanization notes would often make it unnecessarily complicated in a very confined space. It's OK, we have the information in the native language, Nookipedia doesn't have to become a translation program in top of an encyclopaedia. 1- I doubt people are interested at all, 2- If it's not a standardized thing for every villager, it shouldn't be a thing at all. So for all these reasons (limited space, non-standardized practice, limited pertinence), I think we should just do-away with romanization of non-latinized languages. There is Google Translate for that. --Ocre (talk) 14:58, May 6, 2020 (EDT)

Rename NH villager icons
I'd like to rename our NH villager icons from  to   (e.g. File:Rocket NH Villager Icon.png to File:Rocket NH Villager Icon.png). Reason is that some names, like Rocket, conflict with furniture files that follow the same naming schema. This can cause confusion when trying to find files, and can cause problems as several of our templates automatically try to pull icons. Just wanted to bring it up here in case someone prefers a different naming schema. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 10:42, May 7, 2020 (EDT)
 * Done ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 03:21, May 8, 2020 (EDT)

Non-English name hatnotes
At the moment, on villagers who have a non-English name that matches that of another villager, we output hatnotes. An extreme example is Cherry, who has the following hatnotes:
 * This article is about the dog villager. For the special villager whose English name is the same as this villager's Spanish name, see Luna. For the villager whose French name is the same as this villager's Spanish name, see Shari.
 * This article is about the dog villager. For the villager whose German name is the same as this villager's French name, see Midge.'
 * This article is about the dog villager. For the villager whose English name is the same as this villager's German name, see Bella. For the villager whose Spanish name is the same as this villager's German name, see Belle.'
 * This article is about the dog villager. For the villager whose French name is the same as this villager's German name, see Cupcake.

I commend the goal here, but unfortunately these are not useful for the vast majority of our readers and are a major distraction, especially on mobile. Instead I propose the following: On a sidenote: If we want to disambiguate all non-English names, we can (a) make redirects from non-English names to their respective English articles, and (b) in cases where multiple languages use the same name to refer to different villagers, we'd create a distinct disambiguation page (e.g. Lola, which refers to Carrie in Spanish, Nibbles in French, and Tutu in Italian). But I'll leave this for a separate discussion. ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 06:14, May 22, 2020 (EDT)
 * We only disambiguate with respect to English. For the case of Cherry, this means we would only need "For the special character whose Spanish name is Cherry, see Luna."
 * We can use a new template I made, Template:LangNote. This template provides more concise text.

Town/Island tune variations
I propose we add a villager's (and special character's) variation of the town/island tune to their page, specifying things like the instrument used (which varies by species), the pitch, the speed, the rhythm. Though since I think it might be a lot of work to analyse all the variations from every game, we should start with the variations from, then the ones from earlier games. What do you think? 17:50, August 12, 2020 (EDT)
 * I think that's a very good idea! In addition to what you suggested, we could have audio files of the various versions of the default town tune for each character. The thing is, those tunes are procedurally generated since they can be customized, meaning those tracks can't just be ripped from the game. However, if we could rip the individual notes and find the data that tells the game which pitch/rhythm to set it to for a specific character, we might be able to create a script to piece them together. Note: I know nothing about scripting/how the audio files work in-game, so this is just speculation, but I think it should be possible, if a little challenging/time consuming. ~ AlexBot2004  ( Talk ) 19:00, August 12, 2020 (EDT)
 * Before we start, there does exist a video for Doubutsu no Mori 64 that does exactly this, so maybe we could start with the OG villager gang atleast in terms of what GarfQC suggested (instruments, pitch, etc.). Here's the link. (It's in Japanese, but I don't think that really matters) TurtleCrossing (talk) 23:08, August 12, 2020 (EDT)

Japanese Name, pt. 2
I started a discussion in Project Clean-Up about making redirects and disambiguation pages for the foreign names of villagers. Could this be a possible thing to work on here? 21:08, September 6, 2020 (EDT)
 * It's certainly something within the scope of Project Villager. I think the best way to go about this, would be to utilize the Cargo data associated with a villager's translation information. I'm not familiar with the methods of automating page generation hinted at by SuperHamster in his reply to you on the Project Clean-Up talk page, however. So if it's something you're interested in pursuing I would suggest collaborating with him on that aspect of the project. Of course, if you'd rather manually create the individual pages that's also an option, however the automated route would achieve the same results in hours as opposed to days or weeks. Sunmarshsignature.png  ( talk )  14:27, October 18, 2020 (EDT)

Regarding duplicate furniture listings in the house info template
As best I can tell from any of the language of this project, it would appear that a decision to not list duplicate items in villagers’ house info boxes was made at some point. Following this, I made an edit on Admiral’s page, though this was quickly reverted with an explanation that the duplicates are necessary and a standard on many pages. The explanation makes sense, however, directly conflicts with what I understand from this page. I just want to clarify whether this is the most up to date decision on how this information is intended to be displayed. (Asked this already on Admiral’s talk page but I think it may have gotten buried in the changelog and missed so thought this might be a more appropriate and visible place to bring this)  05:38, October 31, 2020 (EDT)
 * So we actually discussed this a bit today on Discord as well. What we came up with is that we should convey multiples of an item, except that instead of listing them as separate items, we should use a count parameter (e.g. if a house has four Samurai Suits, we'd have  and  ; we would then display "(x4)" next to the Samurai Suit). Does that sound good? ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 06:25, October 31, 2020 (EDT)
 * That actually sounds like a very good solution! Would convey the same meaning but take up less space. What would be done for items that have variations, in this case? Would they be counted in the overall number, or would they be listed individually when a villager has more than one variation of the same item (as I have noticed is the case on some pages as of right now)? 06:44, October 31, 2020 (EDT)
 * Hmm IMO I think we can still list those as separate items (and the image shown will match whichever variation is specified). ~ Super  Hamster  Talk 06:47, October 31, 2020 (EDT)
 * That’s what I was thinking made sense, because the variation makes it different enough. And having the different visual would make it obvious that it’s not just a duplicate in the same color. 06:51, October 31, 2020 (EDT)