Difference between revisions of "Nookipedia:Proposals"

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Nookipedia '''Proposals''' allow the community to vote on sitewide changes that would affect a large number of pages or users. This process is not a replacement for community-wide input (see:[[Nookipedia:The Roost|The Roost]]) or talk page discussion. Rather, it takes the final product of those discussions (in the form form of a proposal) and puts them to a vote.
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Nookipedia '''Proposals''' allow the community to vote on sitewide changes that would affect a large number of pages or users. This process is not a replacement for community-wide input (see:[[Nookipedia:The Roost|The Roost]]) or talk page discussion. Rather, it takes the final product of those discussions (in the form of a proposal) and puts them to a vote.
  
 
==Rules==
 
==Rules==
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==Current proposals==
 
==Current proposals==
 
{{proposal
 
{{proposal
| title = (Re)separate {{DnM+|nolink}} and ''Dòngwù Sēnlín''
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| title       = Axe using event notices at [[Mediawiki:Sitenotice]]; delete all pages under [[Schedule:Months]]
| description =
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| description = This is starting to become a problem, especially for me as an editor. We generally have left our site notice around to alert users about events ongoing in the ''Animal Crossing'' games, with the latest pages centered being ''New Horizons''. But, on the premise of how it operate, the system now just feels intrusive that it gets in the way not only for editors, but for readers, who cannot remove those site notices on mobile.
  
Yeah, it's this discussion again. This (well, the first part) was discussed on [[Talk:Doubutsu no Mori+]] since 2018, and the page was merged with {{PG}} in 2020. However, the wiki has evolved since then, recent as it may seem, and I strongly believe it would be beneficial to have these pages separate again.
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You might be inclined to propose several solutions, like combining certain events into one template so it outputs events, or make these notices invisible on mobile, but even with those solutions, we might end up having a site notice that still acts intrusive. Whenever there's a very important site notice, such as announcing that [[Nookipedia:Cross-Wiki Week|NIWA's Cross-Wiki Week]] has started, or if there are multiple events happening (see [[Schedule:Months/May/31]]), all of that crams the actual wiki content down significantly, something that will annoy readers even if solutions like combining these templates into one. Coupled with the fact that this system is basically useless since event info is displayed on the [[Main Page]] anyways, this system is overall functionally annoying and outdated.
  
Though I suspect everyone who will participate in this proposal knows this, a brief overview:
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With this proposal, I want the site notices to display these events gone. Period. The [[Schedule:Months]] pages will be deleted following the proposal's success, and [[Mediawiki:Sitenotice]] will be reserved for Nookipedia-related events, like our birthday, or as I mentioned Cross-Wiki Week. Note that I do not want the entire Schedule namespace removed; the Schedule namespace has birthday pages used on our Main Page and [[Schedule:New Horizons]] is being used for cargo purposes. -- [[User:PanchamBro|PanchamBro]] ([[User talk:PanchamBro|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PanchamBro|contributions]]) 17:00, December 1, 2022 (EST)
* {{DnM}} was released for the [[Nintendo 64]] on April 14, 2001, in Japan only.
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| comments    = * I think the notices are helpful for players (they are at least helpful to me). I encourage combining everything into a single, smaller banner to limit intrusiveness. Mobile users ''can'' dismiss site notices on mobile...we're not using MobileFrontend anymore. The current limitation is that anon users cannot dismiss notices, but we can remedy that by setting <code>$wgDismissableSiteNoticeForAnons</code> to true. I would only support axing it all if we have evidence that our readers find it annoying (e.g. a poll on the Discord server), after we've implemented changes (making notices smaller + letting anons dismiss them). If, say, readers find it useful but editors find it annoying, we could implement a gadget that lets editors toggle event banners. I could maybe support removing the event notices on the premise that it has been several years since NH came out, but I would not want to ax the whole system, and I would want the notices to resume whenever the next game came out. '''~[[User:SuperHamster|''<span style="color:#07517C;">Super</span>''<span style="color:#6FA23B;">Hamster</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:SuperHamster|Talk]] [[Special:Contribs/SuperHamster|Contribs]]</small> 17:26, December 1, 2022 (EST)
* {{DnM+}} was released for the [[Nintendo GameCube]] on December 14, 2001, a port of {{DnM|nolink}} with many more features added, again in Japan only.
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*I agree with SuperHamster, and I think we should implement some of his solutions first (allowing anons to dismiss notices, making the banner smaller, adding a gadget to let editors hide the banners), and see how that goes before giving up on event notices altogether. If problems persist, we can reconsider. [[User:Drago|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:green">Drago</span>]] [[User talk:Drago|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:purple">(talk)</span>]]   [[File:Drago PC Villager Icon.png|20px]] 12:53, December 2, 2022 (EST)
* {{PG}} was released for the GameCube in 2002 in North America, and in 2003 and 2004 in other regions. Although it is the international version of {{DnM+|nolink}}, it added new events, characters, and other features.
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* Could we not just get rid of notices for the less important events (e.g. "first day of DIY recipes", or whatever), but keep it for major ones (e.g. [[Toy Day]])? I feel like the Main Page covers all those minor ones pretty well now. The banner was never terribly intrusive when it simply informed of a major holiday. I'm inclined to agree that its usage has become excessive in its current form. --[[File:Shark HHD Icon.png|20px]] [[User:Dorsal Axe|<span style="color:#0B3E57; font-family: Coustard">Dorsal Axe</span>]] <span style="font-family: Coustard"><small>([[User talk:Dorsal Axe|talk]])</small></span> 13:06, December 3, 2022 (EST)
* {{DnMe+}} was released for the GameCube in 2003 in Japan only, giving Japan the new features introduced in {{PG|nolink}} and other new, exclusive features.
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:* I think that's a good compromise. I'm not sure if I can change the proposal a bit to reword it, but if we can trim out the Schedule namespace to only feature major events, I think that would be better. -- [[User:PanchamBro|PanchamBro]] ([[User talk:PanchamBro|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/PanchamBro|contributions]]) 14:49, December 3, 2022 (EST)
* ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' was released for the [[iQue Player]], a console that ported N64 games– in this instance {{DnM|nolink}}– to China, in 2006. Though not much is known about this version due to its obscurity and technical difficulties, we know items were changed/added as well as events and villager houses, at the very least.
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| votes      = {{Oppose}} '''~[[User:SuperHamster|''<span style="color:#07517C;">Super</span>''<span style="color:#6FA23B;">Hamster</span>]]''' <small>[[User talk:SuperHamster|Talk]] [[Special:Contribs/SuperHamster|Contribs]]</small> 17:26, December 1, 2022 (EST)<br>{{Oppose}} [[User:Drago|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:green">Drago</span>]] [[User talk:Drago|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:purple">(talk)</span>]]   [[File:Drago PC Villager Icon.png|20px]] 12:53, December 2, 2022 (EST)
 
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| year       = 2022
So first: currently {{DnM+}} and {{PG}} are at the same page, the former a redirect to the latter. (This makes sense as this is an English wiki, I can only assume if this were a Japanese wiki we'd do the opposite.) It is correct that {{DnM+|nolink}} and {{PG|nolink}} are two regional versions of the same game. Nintendo has made it clear when they overview the series in Japan that the first three games are {{DnM|nolink}}, {{DnM+|nolink}} and {{DnMe+|nolink}}. Also, DnM+'s game ID is GAFJ and AC's is GAFE in America. The first letter indicates the system (G - GameCube), the second and third the game (AF/AE - Animal Forest/Animal Forest e+, I assume), the last the region (J- Japan, E - North America). (For reference, DnM's ID is NAFJ (N - N64) and AC in Europe/Australia is GAFP (P - PAL); the iQue Player uses a different system.) So, to be very clear, '''I am not contending that {{DnM+|nolink}} and {{PG|nolink}} are two different versions of the same game; rather, I accept this and ''still'' believe they should have separate pages.''' Here's why:
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| month       = 12
 
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| day         = 08
Nookipedia is an encyclopedia about a video game series. We cover the contents of the games and gameplay. As such, gameplay differences are an important aspect to cover. More recently, through datamining and the creation of the AC Spreadsheets and Item pages, many more differences beyond "they added a couple characters and events" have come to light. This includes, but is not limited to: the way items are obtained, many items being removed and added, most events being changed, the way passwords work, the way [[e-Reader card]]s work, songs being added or replaced, character/item appearance changes, and villager house interiors. These may be two different versions of the same game, but major aspects of the gameplay differ significantly. The premise for merging the pages was that they have "relatively few differences" or "minor differences", which is simply untrue.
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| hour       = 17
 
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| minute     = 00
Furthermore, people looking for information on {{DnM+||nolink}} are generally not looking for info on {{PG|nolink}}, and vice versa. The only reason for [[Template:DnM+]] to be used is in comparison to other games with gameplay differences– yet the link redirects you to one of those pages. If a casual reader reads "in {{DnM+}} x, but in {{PG}} y" yet both link to {{PG}}, this serves as a point of confusion. Then, it isn't immediately apparent by looking at that page that the two are regional versions of the same game. Also, I've on occasion seen {{DnM+|nolink}} replaced with something like "the Japanese version of {{PG|nolink}}" or "{{PG|nolink}} (Japan)", which again, while technically true, paints a picture that is not exactly true. Regardless of the outcome of this proposal, I would discourage this type of language.
 
 
 
So all of that is why I think the games should be not be not be on the same page. But neither should they be considered separate games, just acknowledged as separate versions. Since this is an English wiki, most users will likely be looking for information on {{PG|nolink}}, and that should still be our primary page for the two, especially where things are the same in-game. But {{DnM+}} should be its own page detailing its release and gameplay, what it added, etc. As for the Version differences sections on game pages, they should detail the differences added compared to the prior version. This reasoning is also why the PAL version of {{PG|nolink}} does not need to be split; there are no significant gameplay differences, just minor model changes and at most moving the date of a couple holidays. (Well, that we know of...)
 
 
 
All of the above is also why I think ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' should also have a separate page. While we know a lot less about it, we do know that it is significantly different from {{DnM|nolink}}, and that includes item differences. I also think it should get its own linking template (even if we don't split the pages)– ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' is a pain to type out, and again, I think things like "the iQue Player version of {{DnM}}" should be avoided. The short version should probably be "iQue", since "DS" could cause confusion with [[Nintendo DS|the handheld console]], and also just seems kind of silly to me.
 
 
 
The last part of this proposal is clarifying that this shouldn't only split the game pages, but related pages such as [[Furniture/Animal Crossing]], where there are differences. The way those pages are currently handled is another point of confusion. ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' items should also get their own pages in the Item namespace.
 
 
 
I know this was a long post, but well, proposals tend to be, and there was a lot to cover, so thanks for reading it. (Well, I hope you did.) [[User:Chubby Bub|Chubby Bub]] ([[User talk:Chubby Bub|talk]]) 04:51, August 10, 2022 (EDT)
 
| comments = *Great proposal! Both {{DnM+|nolink}} and ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' have enough differences from {{PG|nolink}} and {{DnM|nolink}}, respectively (enough that the regional differences sections take up a large chunk of both pages), to warrant having their own pages to cover said differences (as well as separate item lists and terminology when referring to the games in articles). I also agree with having {{t|iQue}} as a shorthand for ''Dòngwù Sēnlín'' and creating pages for that game's exclusive items (if/when that data is datamined). '''~'''&nbsp;[[User:AlexBot2004|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:#1C662A">'''AlexBot2004'''</span>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:AlexBot2004|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:black">Talk</span>]]) 21:48, August 10, 2022 (EDT)
 
| votes =
 
{{Support}} [[User:TimeSword3D|TimeSword3D]] ([[User talk:TimeSword3D|talk]]) 09:32, August 10, 2022 (EDT) <br>
 
{{Support}} [[User:Senor Mexicano|Senor Mexicano]] ([[User talk:Senor Mexicano|talk]]) 16:16, August 10, 2022 (EDT) <br>
 
{{Support}} [[User:Dr. Peach|Dr. Peach]] ([[User talk:Dr. Peach|talk]]) 18:02, August 10, 2022 (EDT) <br>
 
{{Support}} '''~'''&nbsp;[[User:AlexBot2004|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:#1C662A">'''AlexBot2004'''</span>]]&nbsp;([[User talk:AlexBot2004|<span style="font-family:Coustard;color:black">Talk</span>]]) 21:48, August 10, 2022 (EDT)<br>
 
{{Support}} -- [[User:PanchamBro|PanchamBro]] ([[User talk:PanchamBro|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/PanchamBro|contributions]]) 08:45, August 11, 2022 (EDT)<br>
 
{{Support}} {{User:Kalina70/Sig}} 15:40, August 11, 2022 (CET)<br>
 
{{Support}} [[User:The Messenger|<b style="font-family: Constantia;border:2px solid #0a5aa3;padding:0 9px;background:linear-gradient(#6c9cc7,#4b6d8b);color:#ffffff;border-radius:6px">The Messenger</b>]]([[User talk:The Messenger|talk]]) 18:19, August 14, 2022 (EDT)
 
| year = 2022
 
| month = 08
 
| day = 17
 
| hour = 05
 
| minute = 00
 
 
| percent = <!--Staff use only.-->
 
| percent = <!--Staff use only.-->
 
| result = <!--Staff use only.-->
 
| result = <!--Staff use only.-->

Revision as of 15:49, December 3, 2022

Nookipedia Proposals allow the community to vote on sitewide changes that would affect a large number of pages or users. This process is not a replacement for community-wide input (see:The Roost) or talk page discussion. Rather, it takes the final product of those discussions (in the form of a proposal) and puts them to a vote.

Rules

  • Proposals are only necessary for changes that would affect a large number of pages or users. Some examples: rules/policy changes, adding/removing namespaces, making major modifications to/replacing templates that affect 1000+ pages.
  • Proposals are for voting on fully worked out ideas. They should not have any yet-to-be-determined components: no 'option a, b, or c'. Proposals may be submitted without prior public comment or feedback, but should not receive major edits or changes once voting has started.
  • Proposals can only be submitted and voted upon by registered users. Comments or votes from unregistered users will be removed immediately. Furthermore, all votes or comments must have a signature attached (~~~~). Users are not allowed to vote on their own proposal, but may respond to comments.
  • Proposals will be open for seven days. This voting deadline can be extended upon request, at the discretion of a Bureaucrat.
  • At the end of the voting period, if the proposal has at least a 2/3 majority (66%) it will be considered successful. A Bureaucrat will then officially close the proposal, and either enact it themselves, or coordinate with other staff members to make sure the proposal is completed.
  • Once a proposal has been enacted, the staff member responsible will make a note here and move the proposal to the Archives.

How to make a proposal

All proposals must be made using the template provided below, posted under the "Current Proposals" heading:

{{proposal
| title       = A short, one-sentence description of the proposal.
| description = Additional proposal details/explanation.
| comments    = User commentary on proposal.
| votes       = User votes on proposal: {{Support}} or {{Oppose}} + signature (~~~~).
}}

Current proposals

Proposal: Axe using event notices at Mediawiki:Sitenotice; delete all pages under Schedule:Months
This is starting to become a problem, especially for me as an editor. We generally have left our site notice around to alert users about events ongoing in the Animal Crossing games, with the latest pages centered being New Horizons. But, on the premise of how it operate, the system now just feels intrusive that it gets in the way not only for editors, but for readers, who cannot remove those site notices on mobile.

You might be inclined to propose several solutions, like combining certain events into one template so it outputs events, or make these notices invisible on mobile, but even with those solutions, we might end up having a site notice that still acts intrusive. Whenever there's a very important site notice, such as announcing that NIWA's Cross-Wiki Week has started, or if there are multiple events happening (see Schedule:Months/May/31), all of that crams the actual wiki content down significantly, something that will annoy readers even if solutions like combining these templates into one. Coupled with the fact that this system is basically useless since event info is displayed on the Main Page anyways, this system is overall functionally annoying and outdated.

With this proposal, I want the site notices to display these events gone. Period. The Schedule:Months pages will be deleted following the proposal's success, and Mediawiki:Sitenotice will be reserved for Nookipedia-related events, like our birthday, or as I mentioned Cross-Wiki Week. Note that I do not want the entire Schedule namespace removed; the Schedule namespace has birthday pages used on our Main Page and Schedule:New Horizons is being used for cargo purposes. -- PanchamBro (talkcontributions) 17:00, December 1, 2022 (EST)

Comments:
  • I think the notices are helpful for players (they are at least helpful to me). I encourage combining everything into a single, smaller banner to limit intrusiveness. Mobile users can dismiss site notices on mobile...we're not using MobileFrontend anymore. The current limitation is that anon users cannot dismiss notices, but we can remedy that by setting $wgDismissableSiteNoticeForAnons to true. I would only support axing it all if we have evidence that our readers find it annoying (e.g. a poll on the Discord server), after we've implemented changes (making notices smaller + letting anons dismiss them). If, say, readers find it useful but editors find it annoying, we could implement a gadget that lets editors toggle event banners. I could maybe support removing the event notices on the premise that it has been several years since NH came out, but I would not want to ax the whole system, and I would want the notices to resume whenever the next game came out. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 17:26, December 1, 2022 (EST)
  • I agree with SuperHamster, and I think we should implement some of his solutions first (allowing anons to dismiss notices, making the banner smaller, adding a gadget to let editors hide the banners), and see how that goes before giving up on event notices altogether. If problems persist, we can reconsider. Drago (talk) Drago PC Villager Icon.png 12:53, December 2, 2022 (EST)
  • Could we not just get rid of notices for the less important events (e.g. "first day of DIY recipes", or whatever), but keep it for major ones (e.g. Toy Day)? I feel like the Main Page covers all those minor ones pretty well now. The banner was never terribly intrusive when it simply informed of a major holiday. I'm inclined to agree that its usage has become excessive in its current form. --Shark HHD Icon.png Dorsal Axe (talk) 13:06, December 3, 2022 (EST)
  • I think that's a good compromise. I'm not sure if I can change the proposal a bit to reword it, but if we can trim out the Schedule namespace to only feature major events, I think that would be better. -- PanchamBro (talkcontributions) 14:49, December 3, 2022 (EST)
Votes:

Oppose Oppose ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 17:26, December 1, 2022 (EST)
Oppose Oppose Drago (talk) Drago PC Villager Icon.png 12:53, December 2, 2022 (EST)

Result: (??%) To be determined.

Voting on this proposal has ended. (refresh)