From Nookipedia, the Animal Crossing wiki
Merging with Bee
Closing discussion in favor of merge with Bee
. It has been clarified in the discussion that this merge does not affect honeybee
, and that while the exact insect species has never been specified in the Japanese version, NOA has decided to change its species designation in New Horizons
from 'bee' to 'wasp'. While this is the first time this has happened in the Animal Crossing series
, it is simply a change in translation or semantics and does not imply a significant change to the in-game model or behavior. For all intents and purposes it was determined that 'bee' is equivalent to 'wasp' within the Animal Crossing
series. The discussion also calls into question the use of real-life species names in the Infobox which have no basis in gameplay and may not reflect the intentions of developers. (talk)
16:57, June 8, 2020 (EDT)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.
Strong disagree that this should be merged with Bee as the infoboxes (scientific names) are not the same.
Although they served similar functions across the Animal Crossing series and wasp and bee stings are both colloquially called 'bee stings' (atleast in my region) they are not the same.
To me, this feels like it's a clear choice Nintendo made. Bees have gotten a ton of good PR lately with their populations declining and folks realizing the positives they bring to ecosystems rather than focusing on the stinging (that also comes from Wasps!) --Liana (talk) 00:56, March 25, 2020 (EDT)
- So has the Japanese name changed? If it has, they shouldn't be merged. If not, they're still the same bug. I think NoA changing how they've chosen to localize a bug name doesn't make it a new bug. The scientific name is something an editor grabs from somewhere on the internet, not from the game itself, so that's arguably irrelevant. I think the pages should be merged (if the name hasn't changed in Japan), but keep the title as "Wasp" and have "Bee" redirect and have a message in the description that says before New Horizons this bug was called "Bee" or something like that. --Death2cupbots (talk) 14:42, March 25, 2020 (EDT)
- From what I understand the Japanese name has not changed, and this is just a new translation. I haven't seen any confirmation of this myself, this is just what I read on Discord from another editor. (talk) 14:46, March 25, 2020 (EDT)
- Originally I was inclined to merge, but I started looking into it. Disclaimer: I'm out of my wheelhouse with Japanese, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.
- From what I can gather, the word used in the Japanese version of the game (ハチ) is a generic term that encompasses bees, wasps, hornets, etc. The word for an actual bee is ハナバチ, and the word for hornets/wasps is スズメバチ. So the lack of a name change doesn't really indicate much since they could be describing either. Taking into account the descriptions Blather provides in the game (with NH's description being the first to clearly describe a wasp when he calls it a meat-eating predator), and that the Critterpedia image in the game has changed from a bee to a wasp, I'm inclined to say we don't merge. ~SuperHamster Talk 05:24, March 29, 2020 (EDT)
- Your point is that ハチ is a generic term that could refer to bees or wasps. (The language variants on that Wikipedia page has it link to the English Wikipedia page for "Wasp" by the way.) So what? Even if it were true, it makes no difference. It's vague like you said, how would you know if the bug has actually changed? Sure, the bug is higher quality in NH and has a thinner model, but the icons between CF and NH are almost the same (CF, NL). The model in NL appears brown and yellow, while Blathers describes its colors as black and yellow, so even relying on that might be suspect. None of this matters anyway, because what is important is topic of the bug as it is pertains to the game. The bug in NH and the bug in NL look the same and function the same, with both stinging the player requiring medicine and leaving behind the same nests. They are the same topic as far as the wiki is concerned. Animal Crossing does not necessarily reflect reality, and this isn't the first time Animal Crossing has simplified species. Bringing up the semantics of ハチ is about as irrelevant as bringing up the scientific name. If it was an intentional decision by the game developers to differentiate the bug in NH as a new different bug, the Japanese name would have been changed as well to be more specific. Take your reasoning here and apply it to another creature that looks slightly different between games, we wouldn't split that page into (NH) and (NL) pages just because they have different features which could make them different species. ShadeTempest 00:57, May 22, 2020 (EDT)
- Makes sense to me. This just all goes back to the underlying issue that OP brought up, which is that the way the pages are currently set up, we do differentiate by scientific name and shoehorn critters into their reality counterparts when we really shouldn't be. As part of the critters revamp we're doing, I'd be in favor of dropping all that scientific name stuff from all critters and then merging bee+wasp. ~SuperHamster Talk 03:15, May 28, 2020 (EDT)
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but Bee and Wasp are different in ACNH. Sometimes there are honeybees around flowers that DO NOT sting you and there are wasps, from the beehives in trees, that WILL sting you. These two insects are completely different and can be given to Blathers in the Museum two different times- once for the honeybee and once for the wasp. Their names should be changed. - unsigned comment from 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) -Zip, 4:23 PM 05-21-20
- Honeybee and Wasps are indeed different, and always has been - this discussion doesn't involve honeybees at all. In previous games, the functional equivalent of the Wasp was called the Bee. This discussion is about whether or not the two articles should be merged. The Honeybee has been around since Wild World, and has its own article that will not be changing. ~SuperHamster Talk 18:11, May 21, 2020 (EDT)
- Hmm...I think that the articles should be merged. As for the scientific names and info boxes, why not have two for this article on the side? I don't think it would look bad, if they were the same format and size. And then I would suggest a disambiguation at the top of the page for honeybee. But the "bee" and "wasp" in the context of these articles are the same. People wondering about the wasp in previous games will be able to plainly see that they held a different title in other games and it can be noted the change in the article. I think the scientific naming is really interesting, I don't know if most people care though. But I could see how the scientific name does end up being a detriment. For example, for fossils we list the scientific name for the Sabertooth Tiger but there were three species of them with different names and even the function of their "saber teeth" differed between species. We do note that at the bottom but it's only useful if that stuff can be explained. Ruthless Cutie (talk) 16:02, May 29, 2020 (EDT)
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.