Item talk:NES (Animal Crossing)

Split DnM and DnM+ version of item to Item:Disk System (Doubutsu no Mori+)

We need to address this. This item's name as the NES is factually wrong when it's outputted on Doubutsu no Mori and Doubutsu no Mori+-related pages like Furniture/Doubutsu no Mori+, because the model of this item is not the NES, it's the Famicom Disk System. Note that while Doubutsu no Mori e+ does share the same name of the item, yet is modeled after the NES, it's more of Nintendo's fault for improperly localizing the item for Japan. Therefore, I propose to move the Doubutsu no Mori, Doubutsu no Mori+, and Dòngwù Sēnlín version of the NES item to Item:Disk System (Doubutsu no Mori+), and leave this page for the Animal Crossing and Doubutsu no Mori e+ version of the item.

In case anyone isn't aware with the situation with the NES/Famicom, there's a video by Akfamilyhome that explains more in detail as to the differences between the NES, the Famicom, and the Famicom Disk System here, but to summarize neither systems share the same components and hardware, they're shaped differently and neither can share ones controller, and each have their own exclusive games. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 14:27, November 22, 2022 (EST)

I  Support this. Even if the items serve the same function, they are conceptually different, and it's not right to conflate the two anyway. After all, we don't cover the paintings that were directly replaced on the same page. I think if these split, it would also follow that Item:Well Model (Animal Crossing) is split into Item:Shrine Model (Doubutsu no Mori+) (currently a redirect), but maybe that should be a separate discussion. Chubby Bub (talk) 17:43, November 22, 2022 (EST)

 Oppose — It's clear that the Disk System and NES are the same item, just with different designs. They are both based on the same thing, as the NES for all intents and purposes is the Western version of the Famicom; since the Disk System was never released outside of Japan, they changed the item to be just the console. It's really no different from something like the mailbox, where a Japanese-centric design of something was changed to its American equivalent. To address the issue of the NES name showing up in tables of DnM/DnM+ items, we could always add another name parameter to {{PGFurniture}} and query that for those lists. ~ AlexBot2004 (Talk) 22:50, December 1, 2022 (EST)

Counter-argument: we don't have pleasant feeling painting and classic painting under the same page, even if they share the same Japanese name. I also believe it would be tedious to go ahead and add a separate parameter just to fix the name of this item in cargo queries. The intend was to fix an inaccurate terminology that describes a furniture item's name, and as it stand the Disk System being labeled as NES in DnM+-related pages make us wholly inaccurate with how we cover first gen content. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 22:59, December 1, 2022 (EST)

The pleasant feeling painting and classic painting are based on two completely different things and thus are two unique items; the latter replaced the former, it's not a different design of it. Washington Crossing the Delaware is not the American version of Olympia; they're two completely separate paintings. The NES on the other hand is the American version of the Famicom. ~ AlexBot2004 (Talk) 00:13, December 2, 2022 (EST)

As I pointed out before, the NES and Famicom are not the same entity. We can't say the NES is the American version of the Famicom, because stuff doesn't match up. Because if we go off that logic and consider the NES as the American version of the Famicom Disk System, it's totally invalid because the Famicom Disk System doesn't exist in Western world. By that logic, we should assume Animal Crossing as the Western version of Doubutsu no Mori+, or vice versa. The two aren't compatible, and we shouldn't hide the fact that it's not the NES for DnM/DnM+.

Back to the mailbox example, even if both feature different designs, they still are a mailbox. The Disk System and NES are not the NES by comparison. -- PanchamBro (talk • contributions) 00:27, December 2, 2022 (EST)

 Support - Coming in late to say.. Come on! The NES and the Famicom I would consider equals, I admit that. But the Famicom Disk System does not exist internationally. Split 'em up. - Speedy ( Talk - Contributions - Log ) 06:04, July 3, 2023 (EDT)

Addition to the above discussion

Since the above discussion regarding a potential split has stagnated, I thought I'd add a couple arguments for keeping them in one article.

The NES and Disk System items both serve a very unique purpose, which is being able to load NES ROMs. As a note, the item can play both NES/Famicom ROMs and Famicom Disk System ROMs in all versions, so the two are functionally identical, even if their real-world counterparts aren't. This is fundamentally different from a regular furniture item that is just decorative; if we split the article, we'd have two articles that are identical in every way except for the name/image used, and the item's unused functionality would be redundantly detailed on both articles.

Regarding our treatment of things like paintings, the ones that were replaced between versions are based on completely different paintings. As stated in my comment in the above section, Olympia (pleasant feeling painting) and Washington Crossing the Delaware (classic painting) are completely different things in the real world; they have no similarities other than both being paintings. On the other hand, the Famicom with a Disk System attached (which is what this item is, it's not just the Disk System by itself) and the NES are obviously related, even if they have some differences.

Semantics regarding their names and appearances aside, the internal hardware of the Famicom and NES is nearly identical. The Famicom has support for enhanced audio sent from the cartridge and both consoles have different cartridge slots, but other than that they are identical internally. With a cartridge adapter, you can play Famicom games on an NES and vice-versa. The Disk System is an add-on released only in Japan, but again, with a cartridge adapter, there is nothing stopping it from working on an NES. The Disk System, aside from the medium, really has no unique capabilities that are not possible on a standard Famicom or NES. At the time, the selling points for consumers were:

• Disks could hold more data than cartridges (cartridges eventually grew to match and even exceed the size of disks)
• The use of enhanced audio (later Famicom cartridges eventually made use of this feature)
• The ability to save progress (this was later introduced with battery backup save data in cartridges)

As cartridge technology progressed, they were able to achieve all of these features, and as a result, many Disk System games were ported to cartridges for their international releases. The inclusion of the Disk System alongside the Famicom in the Doubutsu no Mori and Doubutsu no Mori+ item was clearly to show the Famicom at its "full potential", as it was planned to be used as a fully-functional emulator. Outside of Japan however, the NES by itself is already at its "full potential", since the Disk System games that got international releases were ported to cartridges, so it's just the NES by itself in Animal Crossing and Doubutsu no Mori e+.

In conclusion, it is clear that these are the same item, just with a redesigned appearance and changed name. I think it is silly to pretend that these things have nothing in common, when in reality, they are functionally identical in-game and nearly identical internally in real life. ~ AlexBot2004 (Talk) 20:41, January 5, 2024 (EST)

Would it not make more sense to give the unused functionality a unique page as well, that both NES and Disk System pages can then link to? - Speedy ( Talk - Contributions - Log ) 04:57, January 6, 2024 (EST)