Nookipedia talk:Community Fountain

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Example topic[edit]

Post new topics below! Drago (talk) Drago PC icon.png 11:03, January 1, 2019 (EST)

Image category organization[edit]

I noticed that there's an incomplete organizational setup involving image categories in the wiki. There seems to be a useful category, Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf pictures (see talk page), that was left unused mostly and I questioned if it's necessary. I do think there can be use for that category, but only if other similar subcategories of images are created (e.g. Animal Crossing: New Leaf flowers), so I think we should create more categories (while also completing this category) and if those subcategories make sense. Mario Signature.png 19:13, January 1, 2020 (EST)

This discussion could be an extension of 2019#Creation of subcategories for [[Category:(game) Images]]. Sorting things out would be great for those categories, but may require tedious work. I'm actually working on scripts that could do exactly that, which have to be sanctioned of course, but there needs to be some agreement on which categories are needed. I'm thinking of the following archetype for New Leaf, which still needs refinement:
Some of these may potentially be overkill (letters? or categories for types of clothing if there aren't much to begin with?) although the archetype shown above could be used as a basis for further discussion on this topic. My rationale for this is to facilitate searching for media, as the current Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf Images is too polluted, and the only way to search for, for instance, a particular villager's picture is to go to their article. I have also noted the omission of Animal Crossing: in naming these categories, which can also be discussed. (Also can we archive discussions above this one to Nookipedia talk:Community Fountain/2019?) >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 04:46, January 2, 2020 (EST)
I'm in agreement with all of these categories including the shortening of the category names to remove the leading 'Animal Crossing'. I would also propose that we put the system into place for all future images uploaded to the site and start retroactively organizing images beginning with New Leaf. One more note, we actually have lots of (non-HHD icon) images of ACNL furniture, they're just categorized in Category:Game Screenshots along with thousands of other images. I believe most of them were uploaded by Mario though, so we could find a good chunk of them by sorting through their contributions. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help with this. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 23:49, January 2, 2020 (EST)
I don't know if Administrators and whatnot have tools for mass editing all the pages linked in some page with specific criteria. For instance, all files in Picture that end with PicACWW.jpg are part of Category:Animal Crossing: Wild World pictures (apparently that category already exists!), and those ending in PicACNL.jpg should be part of Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf pictures (but they aren't). I'm seeing if I can add arbitrary text (e.g., [[Category:New Leaf pictures]]\n) to all pages that are linked there that meet said criteria, and I will conduct a few tests in Pictures in the coming days before finally categorizing all of them. (For developers, the libraries I am writing are all in sonchou and go-mwclient.)
I think it's best that the categories be first created? Sunmarsh, if you strongly believe that these categories are appropriate, could you create them and populate with some pictures belonging to said categories, as well as move Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf Images, Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf screenshots, and other established categories, at least for New Leaf only, to their shortened forms? Because I'm thinking of waiting for other opinions on such a heavy topic (considering it deals with how we categorize Nookipedia media) and establishing consensus. >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 00:52, January 3, 2020 (EST)
If they're overkill, that's fine. Just be bold. :) I did also upload a lot of images from the Prima Guide for New Leaf (RIP Prima), but didn't categorize them because the category, don't think it existed? We should definitely create more categories before more images get uploaded and we get swamped. Heck, I'm working on uploading custom furniture images. There should be a category for images of refurbished furniture (subcategory under furniture), by the way. Mario Signature.png 01:01, January 3, 2020 (EST)
I've made all of the proposed categories for Animal Crossing: New Leaf and Animal Crossing: New Horizons and tried to tag all the old categories with move requests, but I'm sure I missed some. We have a text-replacement tool, so it would be relatively simple to move all images from one category to another, however to my knowledge, there would be no way to select just a subset of images in a category to recategorize. HotCat which makes the process quicker but still requires per-image category adjustment; this tool is available to everyone. Also I didn't mean to place any blame on you Mario for not categorizing the images- we didn't have a system set up at the time. I appreciate the time taken to upload all the images in the first place! Smily.png I'll move some sample images into the new categories where available and will move existing categories to their new location over the next few days, if there are no objections. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 15:00, January 3, 2020 (EST)
Just wanted to update here that I had placed at least one image in each of the newly created categories. I will be mass-replacing categories tomorrow (e.g. Category:Animal Crossing: New Leaf Images becomes Category:New Leaf images) and then deleting the old categories. So speak now or forever hold your piece lol. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk)
Another update: All existing ACNL & ACNH categories and their images have been migrated to the new categories. Let me know if I missed any. I tried to fix any templates that would be affected by this (like Infobox Villager, Fish, and Bug), and I think I got them all, but I'm sure there is something I missed. If you know of a template that uses #incat: you might want to check it. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 21:21, January 5, 2020 (EST)
?Final? update: Categories for all games (that I could find) have been moved to their new location. I double checked the former categories to make sure no images were left behind. I also checked to make sure that any templates that are using #incat: have been updated appropriately. The only thing left to do is to make sure all uploaded images have been (properly) categorized, and I suppose sometime down the line we might want to consider creating additional category pages for games prior to New Leaf to further categorize those images. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 16:35, January 6, 2020 (EST)

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Excellent work in recategorizing and populating, all! Regarding other games than New Leaf, the above archetype can be modified to suit each game, depending on the media available in each of Category:Images by game:

(The above list is incomplete and anyone is free to expound on them. I will be expounding much more on the following day.) The following are further comments and realizations in writing the above list:

  1. Category:New Leaf furniture may be inconsistent with Category:Wild World furniture items. Migrating the former to the latter format could be done by hand since it's only nine images, although I'm more inclined towards the former, which may require mass renaming. Rationale is that (Game) furniture can also contain the furniture series available to such a game, whereas (Game) furniture items would sound less "natural". See below point.
  2. Category:New Leaf bugs is a category containing the bugs available for New Leaf, but can also contain the media for said bugs. Similarly, categories (Game) bugs and (Game) fish could do the same. I was thinking of doing something like Category:Animal Crossing (GCN) bug images, but that may be too unnecessary.
  3. I have noted above that Category:Animal Crossing (GCN) fish should supersede Category:Animal Forest+ fish. The vocabulary used in Nookipedia when referring to the GameCube games does not seem to be uniform: we have three words for the localized release: Animal Forest+ (Category:New characters in Animal Forest +), Doubutsu no Mori+ (Doubutsu no Mori+, whose merge with Animal Crossing (GCN) is pending), and Animal Crossing (GCN) (Category:Animal Crossing (GCN) Images). (I treated the two as one game since wikipedia:Animal Crossing (video game) states that Animal Crossing is just Doubutsu no Mori+ (どうぶつの森+)) A similar situation is seen in Animal Forest e+ (Category:Animal Forest e+ bugs) and Doubutsu no Mori e+ (Category:Doubutsu no Mori e+ Images). The deletion of Template:AF, Template:AF+, and Template:AFe+ should signal that the Animal Forest name should be superseded by Doubutsu no Mori, Animal Crossing (GCN), and Doubutsu no Mori e+.
  4. Some files have really weird naming conventions as shown above, with some types of images being more uniform (e.g., House of (Character) (GameShortest).jpg and (Character) (GameShortest).jpg for villager houses and character art), and other types being, well, like File:Giant Catfish PG Icon.png, File:Giant Catfish sprite.png, and File:AngelfishGCN.png. Discussion about media nomenclature could be done as another topic here, which should base from precedent and Nookipedia:Project Images, although categorization could be done first and, once images are in their respective categories, they can be renamed using a set of rules.
    • A note could be made here regarding the villager houses media. There are files which are named House of (Character).png, wthout any game information. I moved some of these but further search and replace should be done.
  5. The Welcome amiibo update has introduced several new characters, such as Buzz, and together with them their villager picture and character art. Should these be placed in the New Leaf categories described earlier, or should they be placed in different Welcome amiibo categories which would be subcategories of their New Leaf counterparts? I'm leaning towards doing the latter, unless if some would voice that they should be absorbed into the New Leaf categories.

Any further comments and suggestions on everything written above? >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 09:54, January 7, 2020 (EST) (edited 07:09, January 11, 2020 (EST))

Alright, I'm in support of all of the proposed categories and will start creating them (or you can start if you'd like) over the next few days. I will also rename any existing categories to fit with the established naming system during that time. For point #1, I agree with using (Game) furniture and so I will move images from Category:Wild World furniture items (and Category:E+ Items). For #2, I don't think we need a separate category for bug images and we can just let them populate the same page (although that then begs the question of whether we need two categories for characters vs character art). I think that the real question is whether having images in a category affects the function of the #incat: parameter?
For #3 I agree that the Animal Forest categories are outdated and need to be renamed. Also, in accordance with the Romaji standard established by Ok I believe that the correct spelling is now Dōbutsu no Mori. I think I'm the one who originally proposed the change to Doubutsu no Mori, and I think Nintendo has used both forms (although most recently made use of Dōbutsu no Mori on their merchandise from Nintendo Store Tokyo). The point of adopting a standard is to use it consistently though, so that's what I will use for the rename of all categories beginning with 'Doubutsu'.
Speaking of Doubutsu no Mori+, while I agree with and support the merge with Animal Crossing as it is the Japanese version of the game, it features many localization differences that I think are notable enough that the game should get it's own subcategory within Category:Animal Crossing (GCN) images. And then I think subcats for DnM+ should also be created for all other AC (GCN) categories as needed. I would be open to hearing other opinions on this though.
As far as Animal Crossing: New Leaf - Welcome amiibo goes, I think that images of Welcome amiibo exclusive characters, items, locations, etc. should definitely get their own subcategory under New Leaf. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 15:43, January 12, 2020 (EST)
I've created several of the above categories, although with some changes: decided to go with Category:Wild World box art instead of "artwork" to disambiguate from artwork as in Art, as well as Category:Happy Home Designer villager houses instead of "requests," as the screenshots are, after all, screenshots of villager houses that clients have requested, and so that it may fit in Category:Villager houses. With regards to media affecting #incat, mw:Extension:PageInCat doesn't say anything about undefined behavior and media in categories so I think this should be fine, although the media in categories does bring a question (see below).
On what you've said regarding the GameCube series, I am not an expert on the series, so I have not created those categories yet. The games' differences are more distinct on some categories e.g., character art than on others e.g., sprites. More discussion should be needed on which media categories should be created for these games
On regards to characters vs character art, I think the different types of media for characters (character art, character icons, and model renders) is sufficient grounds for subcategorization. I don't think this can be said for bugs or fish for any specific game (although bug sprites e.g., File:Birdwing Butterfly WW Icon.png and bug images File:Birdwing butterfly (Wild World).gif in Wild World could be grounds to subcategorize between the two, (sidetrack) although by then, wouldn't it be better for these to be accessible inside a common category and rename them to some fixed convention e.g., Birdwing Butterfly WW.gif and Birdwing Butterfly WW icon.png so that the user may be able to get the appropriate media wthout going down several categories?), although that does bring to a more fundamental question: should there be separate categories for media and pages? Because with regards to category unification for page and media categories for bugs and fish, I have laid down two tracks that could be done in their subcategorization:
  1. Categorize game-specific bugs and game-specific fish to the same category for the pages for these bugs, implying that a media-only subcategory is unnecessary.
  2. Place all media in separate categories, forgoing unification.
Option 2 could sound appealing as it gives media a direct link to Category:Images (which, I mean, they are), but at the same time Option 1 would allow media to be integrated with the pages they refer to. I would be more inclined to Option 1, but listing the implications of both I have to say that Option 2 sounds much better. As this will affect how images will be categorized in the future, consensus on this topic should be established firmly before pursuing categorization of these images. LoneShadowStar is the project leader for Nookipedia:Project Images, and should have experience regarding images, although he hasn't been around for some time. In addition, we could look at other wikis at NIWA have been doing: what categorization does Bulbapedia (which keeps its media in a separate repository altogether) or Pikipedia or Mariowiki use? I do not visit their websites, but looking at around five minutes shows that they categorize their media separately from their files (Option 2), although someone who is more experienced there should lay down what method they use. (Appending signature so that discussion on this could continue here) >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 12:01, January 14, 2020 (EST) Respond to this at the very end.
With regards to other categories that are more clear, such as on villager houses, I'm still working on if I could write a script that could run a function to all pages (or files) in a specific category. For instance, those that start with "House of" and end with "NL.png" are definitely members of Category:New Leaf villager houses. I'll link the source code here in a few days. >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 12:01, January 14, 2020 (EST)
Here's the script for those concerned before I run it for good. Do feel free to inspect it. Looking at the Recent changes, it looks like it performs its job well. If there are no complaints with me running scripts here and there, I'll go run it in two days from now. >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 06:56, January 15, 2020 (EST)
Done. I'll see if I could write similar categorizing functions for others such as character art that could fit into this PageFunction archetype written, although it'll take some time. For the meantime, Option 1, 2, or are there any suggestions for such categorization? >DecomposerEmotion Icon - Curiosity (NL) cropped.pngEmotion Icon - Pride (NL) cropped.png 08:30, January 17, 2020 (EST)
Looking at how other wikis do things... on Inkipedia for example all images of Clothing are in Category:Clothing, and then only clothing pages are listed in Category:Clothing in Splatoon 2. This would be like us putting fish images from all games in Category:Fish and then only listing specific fish pages in Category:New Leaf fish etc. On Bulbapedia (and Inkipedia) they don't have categories of 'images'. They simply tag an image with the game it comes from. So all images relating to ACWW would be tagged 'Wild World'. Screenshots for all games are tagged 'Game screenshots'. Sprites are distinguished on Bulbapedia with their own categories separated by game (e.g. Category:Pokemon Yellow sprites).
So, basically... I think we already favor a more nuanced categorization system than other wikis, and therefore copying the way other wikis do things would involve making major changes which I don't think are really worth it (or even necessarily more helpful).
After thinking things over for a while, I think I, like you, initially favored option 1, but the more I thought about it I think that it just makes more sense to separate the media because it seems to follow a trend we have already established. Additionally this way you should be able to find a nuanced category for any image you're looking for by searching by game (e.g. City Folk images, New Leaf images etc.). I would want to include some sort of hatnote though at the top of Category:New Leaf bugs for example, that reads something like 'For media related to this category see Category:New Leaf bug images'.Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 19:17, January 17, 2020 (EST)

Enhanced artwork[edit]

Why do we have edited images of villagers as a stand-in over the original art? Mario Signature.png 22:14, January 3, 2020 (EST)

Just an FYI for others who may not have seen the original conversation, this is a continuation of the discussion at File talk:Gulliver NLa.png. And I don't have an answer for your question lol... It seems that these were assets taken from the official animal-crossing website per vmario97. I think it's the lack of anti-aliasing that makes them look pixelated/grainy.
The quality of the image is really besides the point and the real question here is how we determine which image to feature in a character's infobox template. I feel like this topic has come up before but I can't find it in the Community Fountain archives. I also checked the Bulletin Board forums archive and couldn't find the discussion there either. Generally I think we would want to use officially sourced images from the most recent main-series game, the exception being when we have a better quality image from a non-main-series game. At this point, with New Horizons around the corner it's a bit of a moot point. I imagine we'll be changing all the character art for the new game anyway so I think the issue will take care of itself. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 11:12, January 4, 2020 (EST)
Some background on this: when new villagers were released for Welcome amiibo (WA), we couldn't find official artwork of them, until we noticed that new images were appearing for the daily villager birthdays on animal-crossing.com. These images aren't edited by us; they're actually just that low-quality coming from Nintendo. In cases like Admiral, where their last appearance was pre-NL, I think it makes perfect sense to use these WA artworks. For villagers that were in the base NL game and have both NL and WA artwork, that's where the debate is - do we want to use the original NL artwork, or use the lower-quality WA artworks which are basically variations of the original NL artworks? IMO we should stick with the original NL artwork, due to the quality issue and since it's all still technically the base game, but as Sunmarsh mentioned, I don't think it's a huge deal since March will bring artwork refreshes anyway. ~SuperHamster Talk 16:56, January 4, 2020 (EST)

Music category organization[edit]

After browsing Category:Music, there is a sizeable amount of music that is unsorted by sub-category, like Hourly Music, Business Themes, and so on. I'm very new to Nookipedia and wiki editing in general, but I'd love to help with this. Personally, the reason why I started lurking here years ago was to look up the music pages to find things we still don't have, like instrument descriptions and musical keys. Here are a few other ideas that may be handy as well:

  • What would you all think of adding a section to music articles that features a .pdf download (or an external link) to fair-use sheet music available from NinSheetMusic.org? The lovely folks there create the sheets for everyone to use as long as the arranger is given credit for their work.
  • I found an article mentioning Project Music. If the goals mentioned there are still on a back burner, I'd be happy to start picking away at them.

Any thoughts, additions, rejections, or other considerations are greatly appreciated. HasteWaste talk 02:27, January 10, 2020 (EST)

I think it's all fine. I wonder, do we know what kinds of instruments are used? As the music is in MIDI, you think we can find out what the soundfonts are? Yeah, the project is on a back burner for a while. It'll be appreciated if you contributed! Mario Signature.png 15:57, January 11, 2020 (EST)
Nookipedia:Project Music has been inactive for many years now. If you would like to spearhead the project and become its new leader, we would welcome you to do that and will support you in any way that we can (although I don't know how much music experience anyone has, per se). If you don't want to make that sort of commitment, you're more than welcome to make changes if and when you can. We generally ask that any major changes (moving, deleting, or merging of pages or categories) is discussed on a talk page or here on the Community Fountain first, but you're free to make all the edits you need to add/edit content, or even add new pages if we're missing any.
I like the idea of linking to NinSheetMusic.org, and I wonder if we could partner with them to have them link back to Nookipedia in some way? Either way, I think it's better to ask them before linking to their PDFs directly or uploading them here to make sure it's OK to do. Are you a regular member there/do you know of anyone on that website?
Also, if you need any sort of templates for the music pages created or edited just let me know as that's something I enjoy doing. Sunmarshsignature.png (talk) 15:58, January 12, 2020 (EST)